PreAccident Investigation Podcast

PAPod 535 - Reimagining Safety: Lessons from the Resilience Master

Join Todd Conklin on the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast as he dives into an enlightening conversation with David Woods, the pioneer behind The Ohio State University's Cognitive Systems Engineering Laboratory. This episode unravels the intricate layers of resilience engineering and its foundational role in understanding safety, adaptability, and the dynamics of compromise in complex systems.Listen as Professor Woods shares insights on building competent and extensible systems, avoiding the pitfalls of compromising on safety fundamentals, and the importance of reciprocity and adaptive capacity. With references to historical incidents and contemporary examples, this discussion is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone interested in systems engineering, safety, and innovation.

PAPod 534 - Embracing Māori Culture in Modern Safety Practices - Meet Vance Walker

In this enlightening episode of the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast, host Todd Conklin engages in a compelling conversation with Vance Walker, an expert in integrating Maori cultural practices with modern health and safety systems. As an indigenous professional deeply involved with Maori communities in New Zealand, Vance explores how culturally resonant safety practices can enhance risk perception and communication, particularly for vulnerable workers.Discover the intriguing concept of 'kia tūpato', an attitude emphasizing caution over the conventional notion of safety, and how this aligns with risk management and competency in various cultural contexts. Through fascinating anecdotes and historical perspectives, Vance sheds light on how traditional Maori approaches to caution and risk have been adapted to contemporary challenges, such as those posed by the COVID-19 pandemic.Join Todd and Vance as they discuss the importance of cultural awareness in health and safety, the powerful role of storytelling, and the need for evidence-based practices that truly resonate with indigenous values. This episode is a call to action for businesses and safety professionals to embrace diversity of thought and enhance workplace safety through cultural inclusivity.

PAPod 533 - Exploring the Future with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick

This is Part Two of a two-part discussion.  In this engaging episode of the Pre-Accident Podcast, host Todd Conklin continues the conversation with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick in part two of their insightful discussion. They explore the evolving role of OSHA and how it navigates enforcement and assurance to improve workplace safety. With a focus on collaboration and innovation, the episode highlights the proactive measures taken to enhance health and safety management systems.
Doug and Jim share their perspectives on shifting from traditional compliance to best practices, emphasizing the importance of worker participation and leadership within organizations. They address the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead, providing valuable insights into the future direction of OSHA.
This episode is a great listen for anyone interested in understanding how OSHA is fostering an environment of innovation while ensuring safety and how it's impacting both the regulatory landscape and workplace practices. Be sure to tune in to learn about these critical advancements and the vision for a safer workplace for all.

PAPod Special - Honoring a Safety Pioneer: James Reason's Legacy

In this special episode of the Pre-Accident Investigation Safety Podcast, hosted by Todd Conklin, we take a moment to honor the legacy of James Reason, a prominent figure in the field of safety and human error study, who passed away on February 5th, 2025. James Reason revolutionized the way we understand human errors, particularly in complex systems, with groundbreaking concepts such as the Swiss cheese model and the theory of a just culture.
Listen as we delve into the life and contributions of James Reason, from his early conversations that expanded our understanding of organizational accidents to his influence in various sectors, including healthcare and aviation. Featuring a special tribute from David Woods, this episode reflects on Reason's enduring impact and challenges us to continue advancing in the world of safety and reliability.
Join us in remembering a man whose work has profoundly shaped the foundation of modern safety practices. In a unique tribute, we invite you to enjoy a sandwich with Swiss cheese, a nod to Reason's famous model, and reflect on his contributions to the field. Thank you, James Reason, for your remarkable influence on safety and human error research.

PAPod 532 - Lessons from Leadership with Doug Parker and Jim Frederick

Welcome to the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast with Todd Conklin. In this exciting two-part episode, Todd sits down with former OSHA administrators Doug Parker and Jim Frederick. Together, they dive into the world of OSHA, sharing their experiences and insights from working at the forefront of occupational safety and health governance.Doug and Jim open up about their time at OSHA, discussing what they feel proud of accomplishing, the challenges they faced, and the work they hope will continue. The conversation touches on the role of enforcement and discipline in leadership, as well as the importance of proactive safety measures.Listeners are given a unique glimpse into the agency's internal workings and how the COVID-19 pandemic reshaped the way safety and compliance are perceived and implemented. Doug and Jim reflect on building trust within the organization and with the public while adapting to the uncertainty brought by the pandemic.This episode offers valuable lessons for anyone interested in safety, compliance, and the dynamic role of regulatory bodies in making the world a safer place. Don't miss part two, where the conversation continues with more insights and reflections from these remarkable leaders.

PAPod 531 - Marc Yeston Redux - Navigating Safety: The Fine Line Between Manipulation and Design

Welcome to another insightful episode of the Pre-Accident Podcast hosted by Todd Conklin! In this engaging conversation, Todd shares his recent extensive travels across Europe and Asia, the exhaustion that follows, and the reflections it brought. This episode takes a closer look at the intriguing debate of whether the methods used in workplace safety are merely manipulative or cleverly designed for efficiency and security.
Through a dynamic discussion with Marc Yeston, Todd explores the implications of context-driven behavior in organizational settings. They dissect scenarios that highlight the subtle ways in which environments influence worker behavior, questioning whether these influences are ethical or simply essential for safety and performance.
Listeners are invited to think about their own work systems and practices and whether they facilitate safe behavior or inadvertently lead employees towards riskier decisions. This episode is not only about understanding manipulation but also appreciating thoughtful system design.
Grab a jar of Milo's Tea, sit back, and enjoy this thought-provoking dialogue that challenges our perceptions of safety and efficiency in the workplace. Join Todd and Marc as they navigate these complex discussions with humor and insight.

PAPod 530 - Revisiting Safety on the Edge: Past Insights and Future Conversations

Join us on a captivating journey through the realms of safety innovation and discussion as Todd Conklin invites Corrie Pitzer back to the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast. Corrie, a pivotal thinker in the safety domain, shares the story behind the resurgence of "Safety on the Edge," an international series of conferences promoting new and collaborative safety strategies.
The episode kicks off with a recount of a spontaneous, thought-provoking text exchange between Todd and Corey during a Billy Strings concert, highlighting the importance of embracing diverse viewpoints in safety discourse. The dialogue inspires the revitalization of the "Safety on the Edge" meetings, aiming to unite thought leaders and professionals globally to push the boundaries of traditional safety practices.
Todd and Corrie reminisce about the early days of the movement while unveiling plans for an upcoming gathering in Berkeley. The event promises engaging discussions led by industry pioneers, conceptual innovators, and safety practitioners who will delve into topics ranging from mental well-being to technological advancements in safety.
Get ready to immerse yourself in this exciting preview of the future of safety, exploring how tenets from years past are being adapted into practical applications today, and the enduring commitment to preventing workplace incidents through collective learning and dialogue.

Safety Moment - Stupid Systems Create Stupid Outcomes

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PAPod 529 - Embracing the Imperfect Journey: A New Year's Reflection

In this episode of the Pre-Accident Investigation Safety Podcast, Todd Conklin reflects on the start of 2025 and the podcast's 11th year. He shares insights from a recent vacation and discusses the evolving priorities that come with age. Todd emphasizes the importance of valuing incremental improvement over the elusive goal of perfection, invoking a memorable Voltaire quote to set the tone for the new year.The episode delves into the complexities of redefining success in organizational safety, challenging the widely-held notion of 'target zero.' As Todd guides listeners through this thought-provoking conversation, he highlights the significance of monitoring progress and appreciating the 'good' that occurs in everyday operations. Join the discussion on how to navigate the path toward improvement in an imperfect world, setting the stage for a meaningful and balanced year ahead.

Safety Moment - The Unseen Impact: Embracing the Unmeasurable in Safety

In this episode, Todd Conklin delves into the unique challenges faced by those in the safety profession, where success often lies in preventing measurable incidents from occurring. Reflecting on his experiences in Colombia, he emphasizes the moral duty and imperative of ensuring workers have the environment and support they need to succeed amidst complexity and change.Conklin argues that although the results of effective safety measures may be "nothing happened," this absence of incidents is indeed a powerful indicator of success. He advocates for a shift from focusing on statistical achievements to recognizing and valuing the quieter, immeasurable successes that occur when standard operations proceed safely and smoothly.This episode encourages listeners to appreciate the significance of their roles in maintaining safety and to educate leaders about the importance of outcomes that are not easily quantified, urging the community to take pride in the unseen impacts of their work. Music.